Here are my top 3:
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Whataboutism with Christainity - I’ve been a vocal critic of islam in atheist spaces for well over a decade. There has not been a single instance of me criticizing islam where I did not get a hoard of atheists bringing up Christianity for no reason. There’s no relevance and no point to it, but they get really mad when I try to focus on islam. It’s like why can’t they just accept that islam or other religions can be criticized on their own merits independently?
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Self centered American atheists - Whenever I ever bring up my and my family’s experiences in the middle east and how horrible islam is over there, there will always be a handful of ignorant American atheists who can’t comprehend that the world is more than their country. No ISIS and your dumb MAGA uncle are not the same.
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“All religions are bad” - I hate this statement because it’s like “all lives matter”. Yeah, no shit all religions are bad. That’s literally the baseline of any atheist community. All the discussions lie in the nuances beyond that. Smearing this statement all over atheist spaces is completely meaningless.
What about you guys? Are there any things in the atheist community that you noticed that make your eyes twitch? I would love to hear them.
Maybe I’d prefer a world where nobody is religious. Maybe I’d also prefer a world where everyone shares my taste in music, and my political views, and so on. But people do have differences.
I definitely understand the frustration with some religious people, particularly if they use religion to try to justify hateful views. Then again, there are non-religious people who hold hateful views. I think I’d rather spend time with a non-hateful religious person than a non-religious hateful person. To each their own though.
ah you don’t get it. it’s not about personal preferences, which of course people are free to have.
It’s about being rational. If you don’t understand that being rational is objectively a superior way to think about the world, then you are also vulnerable.
I guess I was working on the faulty assumption that people who’ve explicitly rejected religion are rational thinkers. There are many reasons people have for rejecting religion though.
I definitely prefer rational, evidence-based thinking to thinking which isn’t supported by evidence.
If I were to say “all religions are bad” though then I think I’d alienate some religious people who are decent. I might not agree with their religious views but if I think they’re decent then I don’t want to alienate them.
For example, apparently Zohran Mamdani and Sadiq Khan (the mayors of NYC and London respectively) are both Muslims. I don’t agree with those views; I’m not a Muslim myself. But I still think both of those people are relatively decent, more so than some other politicians. I guess I’m more interested in whether a person is decent, than whether a person is religious.
OK but whether someone is decent or not is very subjective. It’s going to vary from person to person, even between two people who otherwise have very similar worldviews. I don’t know anything about Mamdani, or Sadiq Khan for that matter.
I am however concerned about religious people in positions of political power - I don’t think they have any place there. I don’t think it is possible to truly understand and apply critical thinking and to be genuinely religious - because of the “blind faith” problem, and also the magical thinking.
However public figures are not always honest about their religious feelings. As you said, followers of the Islamic faith in particular can be hostile towards people who have left the religion, so it would certainly affect his chances at the polls if he were to come out and admit to not believing in any of the woo-woo and the supremacism of Islam. (Just quickly want to point out that all Jewish religions are founded on woo-woo and supremacism, I’m not singling out Islam in particular. Perhaps it’s true for all religions, I wouldn’t be surprised but I don’t know, in any case I’m just talking about Islam as that’s the one you mentioned.)
I guess it is possible to consider yourself a believer of a particular religion but just not understand what that really entails. You can’t believe that Mohammed was really a Jewish prophet *and* support rights for homosexuals for instance. If you call yourself a follower of Mohammed and yet say that gays should be allowed to have sexual relationships with whoever they please without feeling bad in any way, then you haven’t studied your religion enough. The religion is quite clear: not only is homosexuality sinful, but homosexuals must be persecuted.
In any case, none of this changes anything about critical thinking. It is not possible to correctly practice critical thinking and be religious.
If you are religious, then giving up the religion is probably just the first step on the road towards becoming a critical thinker. However there’s still a journey to make, and not every person to quit religion will ever start that journey, never mind complete it.
When I think about it, when I first quit religion, I didn’t do it through critical thinking. Really it was an emotional decision, just like religious belief itself. I only arrived at my current appreciation for this process of rational thought after many years of continuing to try and understand the universe, making many wrong turns along the way.
Maybe we just have different ways of looking at it.
In terms of how Muslims view LGBT people: I mentioned that the mayor of London is a Muslim, and he has been to LGBT pride parades, so I think he’s more supportive of LGBT people than a lot of non-Muslims are. So I guess it depends on the particular person. Some religious people might be anti-LGBT but other religious people are more welcoming of LGBT people.
But yes maybe we just have different ways of looking at it, which is fine I think.
well it’s fine unless you’re maybe still not getting it.
It’s not fine to be wrong. It’s not fine to have a bad way of thinking. Not in this day and age, when we are all connected and ideas can spread (and be manipulated) so widely and so easily.
If you know someone who supports gay rights and sex positivity, and they also say that they believe Mohammed was a Jewish prophet (the greatest ever Jewish prophet no less), then they are either being dishonest about one of those two things, or they are ignorant about what those two things really mean.
I don’t really know who is right and who is wrong though. I don’t believe in God, but maybe I’m wrong. Maybe there is a God and the religious people are correct. I just think that there are some religious people I’ve met, and surely others who I haven’t met, who are relatively good people, and I’d like to get on well with them, even if I don’t fully agree with their views. I can see why you find certain views frustrating though.
hmm so are you saying that a person who hears voices in their head might actually be talking to Spiderman, or a space alien, or an angel, or whatever it is they say they’re talking to?
They could be talking to those entities. I haven’t come across any convincing evidence to support the existence of angels, but maybe angels could exist. I think there’s a lot about the universe we don’t know.
I suppose if I were talking to a polite and friendly person who claimed to be in contact with angels, maybe I’d try to find things I might have in common with them, rather than focus on whether they’re correct or not about angels existing.