In Norway we’d say “kvinnekamp er klassekamp”. It’s a bit catchier, but more importantly “kvinnekamp” is a more established term than “women’s struggle”, so I wasn’t sure how well it would translate. If it sounds good to native speakers that’s of course great!
The logic of the slogan is the same for sure. However, I find the word kamp to be important: Rights are something you have or you don’t. Emphasizing rights is great and all, but you risk making people believe they only need to support rights rather than to fight for them.
The central point of Marx is that “the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles”. In Norwegian socialism the core instinct is to join the class struggle, to strike, protest, and fight the capital in any way possible in order to create better conditions not for yourself, but for those fighting at your side.
Unlike “kamp” I don’t find “struggle” to be a particularly powerful word, but I think it’s important to use it. This is about a lot more than protecting the rights of women or to grant new ones; it’s about fixing a gigantic gaping hole in our culture. It is a struggle, and it will continue to be until the end of history.
“Kamp” is more akin to “battle” than “struggle” in energy. I would translate “kvinnekamp” as “fighting for women”, but you can’t really translate “klassekamp” in the same way, so you lose symmetry.
The best I can come up with on the spot is “Fighting for women is a class fight”.
Yeah, this is why I find that it doesn’t translate so well. The German Klassenkampf is typically translated as class struggle though, so those familiar with Marxism in English will recognize the term, flawed as it is.
It’s fascinating how interconnected ideas and language is.
I came across the English version of Knausgård’s “Min Kamp” yesterday, and it was translated as “my struggle” as well. In that context “struggle” made sense.
I’m starting to think “fighting for women is a class struggle” makes the most sense, but it certainly isn’t nearly as catchy.
It feels like “trans rights are human rights” has a similar vibe with a different demographic, but we want more than just rights for women.
Yeah, German speakers tend to learn Norwegian really fast, and with virtually no accent. I’ve met people who could be mistaken for a native speaker in six months. The only people who have an easier time are the Dutch.
You’d think the Swedish and Danish would have an easier time, and they certainly understand it easier, but they always end up with a heavy accent. A lot of them simply keep speaking their own language since the Norwegians understand most of it.
I’m curious about what you mean by “it doesn’t translate well”.
Like, it rhymes in Norwegian? Or the complete meaning doesn’t come across?
I like the slogan even if it doesn’t quite translate the way you mean.
Thanks for sharing that, I’m going to use it.
In Norway we’d say “kvinnekamp er klassekamp”. It’s a bit catchier, but more importantly “kvinnekamp” is a more established term than “women’s struggle”, so I wasn’t sure how well it would translate. If it sounds good to native speakers that’s of course great!
So what you’re saying it’s like the idiom “trans rights are human rights” but “women’s rights are class rights”? I’m sure people can work with that.
The logic of the slogan is the same for sure. However, I find the word kamp to be important: Rights are something you have or you don’t. Emphasizing rights is great and all, but you risk making people believe they only need to support rights rather than to fight for them.
The central point of Marx is that “the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles”. In Norwegian socialism the core instinct is to join the class struggle, to strike, protest, and fight the capital in any way possible in order to create better conditions not for yourself, but for those fighting at your side.
Unlike “kamp” I don’t find “struggle” to be a particularly powerful word, but I think it’s important to use it. This is about a lot more than protecting the rights of women or to grant new ones; it’s about fixing a gigantic gaping hole in our culture. It is a struggle, and it will continue to be until the end of history.
“Kamp” is more akin to “battle” than “struggle” in energy. I would translate “kvinnekamp” as “fighting for women”, but you can’t really translate “klassekamp” in the same way, so you lose symmetry.
The best I can come up with on the spot is “Fighting for women is a class fight”.
Yeah, this is why I find that it doesn’t translate so well. The German Klassenkampf is typically translated as class struggle though, so those familiar with Marxism in English will recognize the term, flawed as it is.
It’s fascinating how interconnected ideas and language is.
I came across the English version of Knausgård’s “Min Kamp” yesterday, and it was translated as “my struggle” as well. In that context “struggle” made sense.
I’m starting to think “fighting for women is a class struggle” makes the most sense, but it certainly isn’t nearly as catchy.
It feels like “trans rights are human rights” has a similar vibe with a different demographic, but we want more than just rights for women.
I really should learn Norwegian. As a German I know half your words anyway. Why am I trying to learn Italian? It’s way too hot there!
Yeah, German speakers tend to learn Norwegian really fast, and with virtually no accent. I’ve met people who could be mistaken for a native speaker in six months. The only people who have an easier time are the Dutch.
You’d think the Swedish and Danish would have an easier time, and they certainly understand it easier, but they always end up with a heavy accent. A lot of them simply keep speaking their own language since the Norwegians understand most of it.
That’s it, I’m learning Norwegian!
Do you think they’d need some software architect who loves solitude and nature?
“Slut” means “end” in a lot of nordic languages, so…
Irrelevant here - see the rest of the thread for detailed discussion.
I don’t know if two qualifies as “a lot”, but I guess it is a significant proportion of Scandinavian languages.
Isn’t it the case in Danish, Norwegian, and Swedish?
Norwegian spells it “slutt”, so not quite.