Hmm, thinking about this for a bit, I’d say that the correct amount of restriction is having to listen to a pharmacist’s explanations of how to use it roughly and what the side effects are. Because people could get silly ideas, but also if the pharmacist is a dick, there’s like 1000 pharmacies everywhere.
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Addiction to HRT is an stupid issue, but an issue nonetheless.
The HRT addiction issue is with cisgendered people being overprescribed overdoses of hormones for no measurable benefit, and the paper is over 30 years old. It’s disingenuous to bring that into this discussion.
Now, this is something new to me. What exactly is “addiction to HRT?” And could you refer me to any studies that discuss it in detail?
I’m glad somebody posted something this blunt so that we can cut through to the point.
No, it isn’t a libertarian argument, because this isn’t under the principle of access to realize individual freedoms, it is an argument that recognizes that any regulation for access of trans people to the care they deserve is indeed a vector for violence from a system that regularly targets them for genocide. To reduce this to an argument for open access to cigarettes or opiates because “the government can’t tell me what to do” ignores the reality that we are talking about a vulnerable group of people and their access to necessities.
Yes, it would be ridiculous to apply this logic to other medications or drugs, because it is exceptionally rare for that regulation to be directly linked to genocidal policy.
I’ve seen this point come up many times, and it is incredibly dangerous exactly because it makes intuitive sense to people who think morality is universal instead of relational, which most of us are socialized to believe.
libertarians are sometimes right though
German here:
Yeah, but they are still hormones, like the anti baby pill. So there is a risk for unregulated usage and imho a Medicine needs to talk with you about potential risks and dangers. So a needed prescription (like for the anti baby pill) seems pretty legit to me. But here are almost all more “severe” medicines, even anti-biotics, need a prescription.
So if you live in a country like the USA, where almost no medicine need a prescription(right ?), it seems also to be a legit point, to demand a free sale of HRT.
I am in the USA, but there are more medicines that require prescription than are over the counter, plan B and other somewhat normal contraceptives are largely over the counter and hormonal with (in the case of plan B) significant side effects.
im really surprised anyone here would push back on this. like its literally the goal. anyone advocating for restricting hormones behind any level of gatekeeping really just wants to control people and sees them as incapable of making good decisions for themselves. its patronizing and authoritarian behavior.
Because the post is a masterpiece in using maximalist language to make a good thing seem crazy. Of course children should have access to puberty blockers when the time comes and of course everybody should have access to gender affirming healthcare but the post is so terminally tumblr brained that it sounds like they want toddlers on hrt.
They really gotta start banning cis people who comment in trans comms, especially if they’re gonna insist on being contrarians and talk over us.
I don’t think this is a very good argument. You could say the same thing about most other drugs, but some of those (opioids, alcohol, cigarettes) are much more dangerous than hormones and are clearly restricted for a reason. If over-the-counter hormones are safe, the argument should be that hormones do not need to be restricted, not that nothing needs to be restricted.
yeah you could. other drugs shouldnt be restricted either. not being restricted isnt the same as pushing them on people, which is what the pharmaceutical industry did with opiates via doctors through lots of shady means, which kicked off the opiate epidemic and killed lots of people. all while opiates were restricted btw. making something restricted doesnt make it safer and it doesnt even necessarily make it harder to get, but it does push people to risky behavior they wouldnt have done if they could get what they want through normal means. drugs being restricted has never stopped anyone from getting drugs if they really want them, it only hurts people.
I really want a quaalude but I can’t get those anymore
I hope that’s actually a meme/joke.
I’m fully on board with access being a right.
But even the less risky meds have contraindications that aren’t going to be understood by the average person. None of the HRT meds I’ve ever seen should be OTC for that reason. It’s the greatest risk with DIY HRT, but at least there you have a better chance of people running across the information before starting.
Since there are alternatives for most of the meds, but you’d have to know what they are and how to dose them correctly, DIY is last resort, not first line. If someone has any preexisting health concerns at all, they really need more than a pharmacy pamphlet before picking meds, and definitely more than would be on the side of a box.
Yes, people can do research on their own, and do. But once the sample group of people taking HRT and related treatments on their own gets high enough, it’s not a matter of if deaths will occur, but when. And yes, that can be the result of any of the substances used.
OTC? Not by the usual sense of the term, no. The goal is to give people the tools needed to achieve their goals while keeping them alive and healthy. It’s totally doable to have open access without upending the protections that exist in what qualifies to be OTC or not.
You’re asking the wrong question.
You’re asking: “are HRT medications perfectly safe?”
You should be asking: “are HRT medications of comparable safety to other OTC medications?”
And the risks from HRT medications are vastly overblown, which you are doing here. You’re spreading FUD about HRT. The risks are lower than most OTC medications. And most of the “risks” cited by folks are just your risk profile switching from a testosterone-dominated risk profile to an estrogen-dominated risk profile. Trans women on HRT get an increased risk of breast cancer, no shit. Growing boobs will do that. Or look at the bullshit told to trans men about how it increases their risk of heart attack, when all it does is raise the heart attack risk closer to the cis male range than the cis female range. Almost all bullshit spread around about the risks of HRT are just your medical risk profile undergoing a sex change. Cis men are more at risk from certain maladies then cis women, and vice versa. When you go on HRT, you switch sides of this.
And this is the disgusting hypocrisy of it. (On the part of the medical establishment, not you specifically.) No cis man who hasn’t already had a heart attack would ever be told to take testosterone blockers to lower his risk of heart attack, even though they absolutely could lower their risk by doing so. But when a trans man takes a medication that simply raises his heart attack risk to be closer to the male range than the female range, suddenly that’s fear mongered as some horrible risk factor that needs to be guarded against at all cost.
Quit spreading FUD about HRT. It’s safer than tylenol.
I’m not spreading fud. I’m not asking questions.
I’m making a statement that drug classifications exist for a reason, even when flawed.
In the case of the various hormones, while I absolutely insist that access should be open and free, they are a class of medications that should be screened for contraindications. To a degree that simply doesn’t match the level of risk that is acceptable for an OTC medication.
Being real, or isn’t about trans access at all. Nobody needs to run into them OTC. Little old ladies with hot flashes, guys wanting to boost muscle gains, whatever. They just aren’t a good OTC candidate.
That is completely separate from how horribly unfair and biased the medical community can be about access to meds for trans people. It’s separate from trans people deserving total access to whatever treatment regimen they and their providers determine is safe enough and useful for their needs. It’s about the mind numbing list of contraindications. It isn’t “just” breast cancer or coronary risks. Both of which are far from trivial, but you know those risks going in because they’re the common, well known ones.
Like estradiol and some anticonvulsants, or benzos. The possible outcomes from that kind of interaction aren’t likely to kill anyone, but they’re going to have an unpleasant experience and need to change either their hrt regimen, or the other meds until a combination is found that’s both effective and safe.
You can’t do all that on your own. Nobody can because it’s not only unsafe, it’s a hit into the resources that are sometimes already limited. You get randos just deciding they need to switch from valium to, I dunno, xanax, and even if that was a perfect switch to make, now you’ve got their supply of valium that’s in the trash or whatever because you can’t just return them. Or vice versa, they switch the estradiol and now that’s either trash or is an unverified drug floating around which is a whole nuther kettle of fish being spilled.
The problem is that trans people need to be given the respect and decency to have access to transition resources without the bullshit, not what the meds are classified as. You, me, Terry down the street, we all have a fundamental right to equal access to services and medications. It I can get testosterone provided as a cis man, so should you as a trans man. Period. No buts. This is a separate thing from testosterone being an over the counter med.
It’s throwing the baby out with the bathwater. People seem to forget that most of the drug classifications and regulations came about because without them, shit was horrible. Those classifications and regulations aren’t always accurate representations of anything other than the stupidity of legislators, but that just means we need better methods of changing them, not that they don’t work at all.
Seriously here, I have seen, first hand, too fucking many times exactly what happens when people start taking shit that they shouldn’t. I was very often the first person to notice that kind of thing coming into a new patient’s home and observing their medications. People taking way too high a dose, or not enough. Taking things that absolutely shouldn’t have been taken together. I have seen some fucked up shit because of medications being used inappropriately. So, when I say that the various HRT meds should not be OTC, it isn’t bigotry, it isn’t fud, it’s first hand experience combined with training and knowledge.
I’m not talking out of my ass here, I’ve seen exactly what can go wrong when someone takes estradiol while also taking thyroid meds. It isn’t going to kill most people (and didn’t my patient), but it was absolutely something that would happen with it OTC, because that poor, half dementia swallowed old lady got the estradiol from her sister, not her doctor, who would have been able to find the right combination of meds for her case.
That is completely separate from how horribly unfair and biased the medical community can be about access to meds for trans people. It’s separate from trans people deserving total access to whatever treatment regimen they and their providers determine is safe enough and useful for their needs. It’s about the mind numbing list of contraindications.
I think you missed the point entirely. There’s nothing magical about the estradiol I take. It’s literally the exact same molecule my body makes on its own.
You ARE spreading FUD. All those contraindications of estradiol are just a trans woman raising her risk factor for that contraindicated medication up to the risk levels a cis woman experiences from her natural hormone levels. You would never tell a cis woman to go on E blockers when taking these medications. But when a trans woman takes a medication that simply raises her risk profile to female levels, then it’s some horrible thing.
HRT fundamentally changes how your body metabolizes medications. Of course it’s going to change the risk profiles of a bunch of other medications. It’s a sex change at the biochemical level. But all it’s doing is swapping your male-pattern risks to female-pattern risks, and vice versa. Estradiol lowers your risks from a bunch of medications, anti-contraindications if you will, but that side of the ledger is always ignored by FUD-mongers like yourself.
I have seen some fucked up shit because of medications being used inappropriately.
And none of those medications were HRT.
I’m not talking out of my ass here, I’ve seen exactly what can go wrong when someone takes estradiol while also taking thyroid meds. It isn’t going to kill most people (and didn’t my patient), but it was absolutely something that would happen with it OTC, because that poor, half dementia swallowed old lady got the estradiol from her sister, not her doctor, who would have been able to find the right combination of meds for her case.
You’re basically arguing that no medication should be OTC. Or really in this case, no amount of medical screening can help. The old lady with dementia could just as easily mistakenly take a 10x dose of something prescribed by her doctor.
And again, even in the worst case you can imagine, nobody died. Meanwhile, trans people are dying every day from lack of access to HRT.
There are countries where estradiol is OTC. Its a good thing and should be the case everywhere.
There’s nothing in my estradoil thats more dangerous than what I could buy from a packie.
That’s debatable. And if you want a serious rant, ask me what I think of the current classification of some OTC meds. Because there’s plenty that shouldn’t be OTC.
But I didn’t say estradiol, or testosterone, or spironolactone, or any other hormone or hrt related meds were dangerous, I said they came with risks that are too high for them to be reclassified as OTC. Said it differently, but since that part didn’t translate I figured I should rephrase.
I’m not sure what level of terminology you’re familiar with, so if something isn’t what you’ve run into before, holla at me and I’ll rephrase things.
The point is that every substance we take into our bodies has some effect on it, no matter how minor. Medications, which are just substances that have a non-minor effect that is being applied to some form of illness, disease, disorder, or just to adjust normal function to a more desirable state, have higher risks than substances like water or cheese.
Medications all (or so near all as to be irrelevant) have interactions, and contraindications.
One of the ways medications are classified is by the degree of risk. Those classifications are far from perfect (again, I have strong opinions about many, many drugs needing to be reclassified), but an OTC drug needs to meet a standard that is a much lower threshold for risk than prescription only drugs.
The threshold of risk for something like estradiol is absolutely higher than that of paracetamol, aspirin, sodium bicarbonate, even something like topical lidocaine. None of those are risk free. They don’t meet the threshold of dangerous (nor does estradiol), but the level of risk is low enough that OTC status is reasonably acceptable overall.
Estradiol, since that’s the example you chose, comes with a non trivial contraindication for people with liver disease, clotting issues, history of stroke or dvt, and some forms of cancer. There’s a list of medications hundreds long that it can negatively interact with, not all of which are obvious
And that’s just one specific medication from that class of meds. I can’t even rattle off all the known detrimental interactions for that one drug, and I’m a medical nerd/geek with decades of experience and training.
I can do that the acetaminophen, for fexofenadine, famotidine and dozens of other OTC meds because the lists are so much shorter.
And that’s why reclassification of those meds is a horrible idea. There’s other ways for trans people to have open access. And, being real, those options are better than campaigning for reclassification of HRT meds because they’ll apply to other aspects of transition and healthcare.
Every single trans person on this planet deserves to have their right to access recognized, codified, and enforced.
That is not the same thing as reclassification of a medication. It just isn’t. There’s absolutely no upside to reclassifying estradiol instead of just making sure than the people that need it can not only expect to have that need addressed, but to also ensure that they have access to the full suite of healthcare that should be just as fundamental a civil right.
Driving a car comes with much more risk than many medications that are prescription-only. If we provide everyone healthcare and free doctors visits then fine, we can be more restrictive with prescriptions. Until then many people can’t afford to go to the doctor to be prescribed something.
Yes, there are risks, but we take risks every day. People should be allowed to decide for themselves what risks they are willing to take, not the government. The government putting things behind large paywalls is them restricting what you can do with your own body.
I agree with the sentiment, and given the big picture of what you advocate for,
Every single trans person on this planet deserves to have their right to access recognized, codified, and enforced.
, within the limits of the current working system of health, you have my general agreement.
The reason, I think, that this post grates you a bit, is because behind it, there is a secondary ideological belief. That is, a different view around enforcement, the anarchic one.
The idea (that I as a trans person strongly support), is that the Government, the entity which decides legal limitations around medications, shouldn’t even be allowed to have the ability to manage HRT, because if it has the ability, it will unavoidably use it at some point down the line.
Unless you’re willing to say that drugs like nicotine shouldn’t be over the counter due to the real health risk they pose, then it isn’t the government legislators’ job, to decide via restriction, who gets access to HRT medication.
The idea around prescription drugs, is that you’re supposed to have easy access to them whenever you need them via doctor’s orders, and they are restricted for one of these three reasons:
Either 1. They are useless outside their use AND rapidly irreversibly dangerous, 2. They can be made into threats for the state (see, bomb materials), or 3. Their risk is so great, that there’s value protecting people from seeking them (see, opioids and other addictive substances).
HRT isn’t addictive, and is slow acting, while being life saving for people who often are failed by the current social system. The only reason to limit HRT, (in a world where Alcohol is in super markets for 2 euro per liter lol), is reason number 2., every 50 years that fascists come out from their holes.
This is one of those many, many cases, where, your beautiful and correct dream of safety for our world that I agree with, should maybe (/s) Not start from restrictions to minorities.
Yeah agreed and I mean the risks of current hrt are really minor, I know the most about estrogen so I’ll tall about that, but even blood clots on doses that are too high is debated since a lot of the studies on that were with non-bioidentical types of estradiol iirc. The cancer risk they brought up also literally just changes the chances of you developing certain types of cancer to basically what the risks for a cis person who naturally has those hormones is. Same with any kind of clotting disorders, it just makes it closer to the risks of a cis women. No cis women with clotting disorders or a history of cancer are being prescribed estrogen blockers preemptively to reduce their risks of those.
But also like, should the government restrict purchases of every single thing that could harm someone? I truly believe somerthing like a knife, or certain power tools are honestly more likely to cause injury than hrt, same with alcohol as well obviously. IDK why medicine specifically requires protecting people from more than any of those.
In 80% of cases, it’s because of authoritarianism. In 20%, it’s because expecting someone to have a good sense of space to not poke an eye out with a drill, is much more reasonable than expecting the Charlatans to pick safe snake oils to sell.
No one ever buys random drugs they know nothing about, but things you know nothing about, are perfect Charlatan fields. ::: spoiler Sad example: Here in Greece, people literally tell each other medications to try, no doctor appointment required, as panaceas. It’s not even for money, it’s the same impulse that makes people share “super foods”, and “mindfulness exercises”. It’s alienated, suffering people, with no real solution to their problems, making tiny religions around symbols. Just in this case, these symbols do liver damage. :::
So let’s make it harder to trick people into injecting horse de-wormer or whatever. You have to at least be in the government to do that.
So, I understand the points you’re making about medication regulation. Certainly, ibuprofen carries enough risk with abuse for the ease of access to be questioned, for example, but I’m unsure of the claim here that there are other ways for open access to HRT.
It seems that the conclusion here is that liberal civil rights campaigns are more effective with less risk, but I’m unsure if that’s the point, since, y’know, that would require trans people to even further risk their safety by cooperating with institutions that are largely dedicated to the genocide of trans people. I’m sure that would carry a less general medical risk since, of course, it is not only trans people making use of these medications, but I don’t see how this could be argued as more dangerous for trans people specifically.
I think it’s also crucial to note here that even the non-violent actions that are necessary to fight for that protection carries the risk of incarceration, and therefore, significantly high chances of sexual violence given the disproportionate rate that trans people experience sexual violence in those cases. Even more, in the US, there are many cases where we’d be asking trans people to risk forceful “detransition” to participate in said campaign, as that is an accepted policy within the US carceral institution.
I do hope I’m misreading the last part of your comment for that reason, as I think that kind of point would ask us to ignore the trans people who died to secure what access we do have (very many of which suffered the consequences I listed above), as well as the reality that these institutions only conceded rights to that access as part of a longer campaign against transness, the consequences of which we are witnessing through the current wave of genocidal policies targetting trans people. With all that in mind, I find it difficult to weigh the valid concerns over medical safety against the specific needs for some of the most vulnerable people in our society. Surely, there is an acceptable risk I’m willing to generalize should that mean fewer trans youth die because they refuse to live without access to themselves.
Oh, I’m fully on board with DIY as a life saving measure. It infuriates me that anyone, much less a kid, has to go that route, but it is an ugly world full of hate and even just plain bias, so DIY is the only realistic option for way too many people.
I’m just saying that trying to make a class of meds OTC isn’t the long term answer to that problem.
I’m so sick of seeing good people treated like garbage for the crime of not fitting preconceptions. It’s one of the things that shifted my views on the desirability of violent revolution away from a purely pacifist stance. Too many people get crushed waiting for a peaceful change. But that’s not really on topic, sorry for the mini rant.
Coming back to it, I think that trying to reclassify HRT meds as OTC would, at best, kick the can down the road on trans rights to access. At worst, it turns into another fight of its own that just isn’t useful on a strategic level, and since it doesn’t achieve the goal any better than other paths to open access, the risks it brings aren’t worth it.
Oh yes, I didn’t think you were against DIY HRT generally based on your comment.
I do think systemic violence is very much on topic, especially following my comment. We have to be real, every trans issue is a topic related to a group of people who are regularly targetted for genocide. This is why I’m a bit confused about this final point again, about wider access being definitively less effective and more harmful than alternatives, since we don’t really have alternatives.
Every act of cooperation with a liberal-capitalist system is “kicking the can down the road,” since that system fundamentally desires the eradication of queerness. As far as violence goes, I’m not sure how you could argue that, again, an increased generalized risk to the benefit of trans people is in any way more risky than simply continuing the current path, which is civil recognition, when that literally resulted in the current moment of trans genocide and is concurrent with the consistently high rate of self-harm and suicide among trans people. As far as I see it here, your point is that a potential threat to the general population is more of a concern than the very real and immediate threat faced by trans people today.
As you’ve stated in other comments, there already is HRT misinformation, and the systemic oppression that we experience has necessitated community responses and education campaigns. So, I don’t really see how this would be a problem for trans people specifically, whom already have an information network via the preexistng ones within the trans community. I also don’t see how this would be any more or less difficult to implement in the current cultural moment within the US (and anglosphere) and/or EU contexts, since, again, we are already dealing with the negative consequences of cooperation in the first place. I’m not sure what strategic value there is in foregoing campaigns that can codify trans access to HRT without explicit trans rights in mind, and therefore protection against the repeal of policy on the basis of anti-transness alone.
So, could you please explain what alternatives you’re referring to?
Hey, I’m not ignoring you. I’m having trouble reading this currently. Tired, dyslexia, and the app I use isn’t great once you get enough comments chained.
I plan to come back to it tomorrow on a different device because it definitely looks like a great comment from what I can parse. But I’m also horrible with time and some types of memory, so I didn’t want you to think I was dismissing you when I’m just flaky in some aspects.
Yes, people can do research on their own, and do
I used to be an advocate for people doing their own research for this stuff, but then people started injecting themselves with bleach and horse de-wormer. And that was before search results got sloppified
I’m as gay as they come and think HRT should be accessible to all (as with literally all healthcare), but I agree that it shouldn’t be available OTC. Like, this is a class of medication that people desperately want to work for themselves, and there’s a great risk of confirming biases and downplaying potential side effects.
There’s also massive disinformation campaigns targeting the trans community so this is an especially difficult area to research for DIY and it makes it all the more depressing when that’s the only option available to some
The people doing bleach and ivermectin were not doing their own research. They were screeching “do your own research” while denying the actual research and reading confirmation bias entertainment.
Bioidentical hormones are safe, the big risks come from the older derivatives like premarin (synthetics with high blood clot risk) or taking hrt levels of birth control type estrogen- there’s some parts of the world that’s what they still prescribe. Another big avenue of risk is infection/contamination with injectibles, due to this a lot of DIY people are making transdermal gel.
Anti androgens are expensive, estrogen is cheap. Anti androgens have high risks and dangerous side effects. Bioidentical estrogen has none. Doctors love to microdose the E and macro dose the AA. But mono therapy estrogen levels are enough to suppress testosterone without AA.
I’ve read the research from a trans girl who simulated pregnancy hormones and took her body through it.
Everything is risk assessment and reduction; cis people and trans people have different priorities on what those risks and reductions are. Such as the medical community wanting to give us the bare minimum, in dose, in care, in practice, in understanding.
The connection between politicized medical disinformation surrounding COVID-19, and potential disinformation campaigns targetting trans people is interesting. Is there something in particular you’re referencing, or is this more speculation on a potential issue?
I know my biggest barrier to care was indeed medical clearance and medication/tools restriction. Even with socialized coverage, it was about a thousand dollars and five months of my time to get started; let alone the years I spent waiting to even start the process because I knew that would be the most expensive hurdle. Hardly had to go through the same process for ibuprofen, which also carries fairly severe side effects if abused.
Oh I didn’t mean to imply that they were connected, the COVID-19 stuff was just a high profile and memeworthy example of how much harm people can cause when they can’t or won’t see a doctor
I’m in a similar boat. Healthcare is free here, but the system is so slow (underfunded) that I joke I won’t get help in my lifetime
Ahh okay, bringing it up in this context made it appear as though the motivations of either people who subscribe to that misinformation, or the groups that propagate it would align in some way with a potential misinformation campaign that would effect trans peoples’ ability to access information. The systemic violence described below suffices, so I’d be surprised if there was such a campaign that actually worked on what is a substantially different target audience.
I’m privileged to have had that money and time, many trans people do not. It’s important to remember that many of us experience shelter- and other forms of material insecurity at disproportionate rates, and that is not disconnected from the overwhelmingly high suicide and self-harm rates for young trans people. Slow delivery of care with the caveat of privilege for access does literally constitute the systemic violence that perpetuates those rates.
I mentioned this in another comment on this thread, but I think it is a perfectly acceptable cost to introduce a potential generalized risk by expanding access and substantially mitigating the preexisting and specific forms of violence that trans people experience. I don’t see how it is reasonable to argue that a less immediate and threatening risk to a general population which regularly refuses us care is an unacceptable cost to address the needs of our own community. We already have information and support networks in place within our community for this very reason.
The meds also can have side effects even without contraindications, that people might not think about. Using testosterone, for example, essentially requires at least yearly bloodwork. Especially with higher doses, there is a risk, your blood gets too thick (testosterone raises the blood cell count etc.), and you get blood clots, which I assume does not need an explanation, why that is bad. I understand why people want over the counter HRT, but I would only agree with that, if everyone also had access to follow ups by doctors, to get the doses right. The access should be a right, but so should be, the proper medical support by professionals.
The only risks from HRT are that your medical risk profile undergoes a sex change. In other words, your risks for various diseases flips from the male-level risks to the female-level risks, or vice versa. However, in some circles, this simple risk profile flipping gets slandered as some horrible side effects that must be avoided at all cost.
No doctor has ever told an otherwise healthy cis man to go on testosterone blockers simply to lower their long-term heart attack risk. But trans men get fear mongered about the heart attack risk of testosterone, when all it does is raise their risk closer to the male range than the female range.
It’s utter horse shit. Obviously if you take like, 10x the recommended dose, then you start getting into real risks. But HRT is an incredibly user-friendly set of medications to DIY. They’re very forgiving medications. Hell, trans women can take 10x the regular doses for months and have no negative effects.
No, it can actually be dangerous. At least there, if cismen are taking that extra testosterone (for low testosterone usually), they too have to get regular bloodwork done, for the same reason. In my country, if you are taking extra testosterone, the healthcare system will treat you as a man, there is no extra trans-category for regular medicine like that.
Edit// Even the diagnosis is actually the same, “permanent failure of male reproductive organs”, perhaps ironically.
Yeah. I do think people should ultimately be allowed to get it regardless, but proper information on what it will, won’t, and might do as well as adjusting it to their body should always be a prerequisite. The barrier should be a LOT lower than it is currently, but there should still be a small one to make sure people know what they’re doing.
Edit: Ultimately I think the only reason this is even something people feel like they need is rampant transphobia and misinformation even with professionals. In the current state of the world, having hrt available fully OTC might actually be preferable to the status quo, but we’d also likely never get to that point without society already having changed enough to make it unnecessary.
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Also it’s crazy that this guy can just walk into a supermarket and buy peanuts!!! Doesn’t SouthSamurai know some people have contraindications for those, even more severe than for hormones bioidentical to the ones that the human body already makes??? Clearly peanuts and any derivative products should only be dispensed by licenced pharmacists after thoroughly screening customers for susceptibility to unwanted side effects, with an insistence on regular blood tests, of course.
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waow (basedbasedbasedbasedbased)
What? No, we do not give party drugs to kids at all. Some drugs given to children may well be abused by people looking to party, but that’s an argument against drugs being reclassified as OTC
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Your submission in “Full body autonomy!” was removed for trolling.
Know the transmemes rules
Cis person concern trolling: “aww, you’re sweet!”
Trans person dunking on them: "Your submission in “Full body autonomy!” was removed for trolling. "
Thank you for the reminder I really need to block that entire instance
Well, maybe informed consent at any age >= adolescence, you don’t want 3 year olds taking random hormones
but otherwise, agreed
What 3 year old is going to the pharmacy to buy random hormones??
An irresponsible one? Just bcos it’s not usual doesn’t mean the occurrence shouldn’t be protected against
Also like make sure ppl are getting blood tests and stuff if they’re taking HRT, and that they fully understand the effects of taking it/not taking it before starting puberty so they can make an informed decision either way…
I dont think its the 3 year old thats being irresponsible in that situation
I wasn’t aware that small children were able to purchase any medication.
that would be under the counter. because 3 year olds are too short. do you get it?
i live somewhere where u can do this, and no issues no bullshit. the state is anti trans and so are people but thats discrimination rather than medical limitation. im constantly reminded that the west requires documents for hrt or worse. crazy
people have such a misunderstanding of what to regulate. regulate who can make drugs, certify the drugs that a pharmacy can have. but powerful people gonna regulate what someone can buy bc they want to create an underclass who are easy to prosecute for meds they need that they access outside the legality.
if someone really wants to regulate for “misuse” or whatever, make the medical industry, doctors, hospitals, free of bullshit like money, discrimination, etc. that isnt happening anytime soon, so the end goal with limiting access is just discrimination hidden behind the mask of “we dont want u to do things wrong now would we”
This! They can argue all they want about how gatekeepers keep people safe. But ultimately gatekeepers are gonna gatekeep.
Removed by mod
Show your adult ID and you can have whatever you want. Or buy it on the dark web with crypto.
No, trans adolescents should also have access to medications that will block the unwanted and permanent effects of their natal puberty
The crypto thing is absolute overkill, one example of sufficient feminizing HRT is literally the same pill that is used for hormonal birth control.
Just let people get medicine.
